MyDD :: Open Thread

by nzubechukwu on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:07:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Lori, great point. She's going to have to compromise once congress returns in the fall. The democrats should NOT surrender the energy debate to the GOP. Obama's leadership skills will be tested.

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

Lori, I still don't understand why you've fallen for this GOP scam about offshore drilling...

Regardless, the play is actually smart... figure out a compromise plan that either has poison pills that Bush will veto, but, with drilling in it... or something that will be signed in time for labor day, when the gas prices will drop regardless... and the democrats can take all the credit...

Still, it sucks that we will have to cave, once again, to a GOP talking point that is a complete scam on the American people...

It's not all bad, though... McCain did totally cave on Iraq... and, that's probably been his biggest boost so far!

by LordMike on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:14:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

Why is it a scam ?

Look i recognize it would take sometime to have an impact .

However this is not only a matter of economic security but also of national security .

I believe we should drill along our coast as part of the solution and we should drill now.

Notwithstanding , why should Nancy Pelosi hold the whole country to a standstill by preventing a vote ?...

She should allow a vote and let the chips fall where it may , there is overwhelming support for drilling and she would lose a lot of dems in a vote thats why she is preventing the vote .

And why is she so adamant.... she wants to save the planet .....

This issue has become a rallying cry for a lot of Americans and is a cause of national unity and pride for many voters and she risks a backlash if dems are not careful.

Because it takes some time to yield dividends is not an excuse not to do it , I tend to be wary of people who bet against the American people .

I am confident American ingenuity and entrepreneurshp can get it done in a shorter period and the benefits would be felt earlier than a lot of these folks are predicting .

by lori on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:29:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 2)

It's a scam 'cos it will have no impact now or in the future... the amount of oil is small, and most of it will be sold to China or India, or whomever bids the highest...

But, the costs are high... reduced tourist dollars in the coastal states, taxpayer funded cleanup operations then they inevitably spill... mostly, it will induce complacency that we don't have to switch to different forms of energy, 'cos we will get enough oil from the coasts... we won't!

It does not increase national security or decrease dependence on foreign oil.. in fact, it increases it, since the policy strings us along on old energy for an even longer period of time...

McCain's premise on offshore drilling is a pack of lies and BS... he is implying that doing so will reduce the cost of oil now!

And congress doesn't need to do crap about offshore drilling... the president, in an executive order, is allowing the offshore drilling, so the whole thing is a scam... so, that's a bogus GOP talking point...

As Nancy said, the Republicans held up voting on tons of popular issues like the minimum wage, yet no one complained about that?

Unfortunately, the American people seem to fall very easily for scams... just look at how easily they fell for the Iraq war...

I bet that once "offshore drilling" gets passed, and the price of gas remains high for another decade while Exxon gets fat on profits, they will have buyers' remorse just like they did with the Iraq War...

No more buyers remorse... time for America to wise up now!!

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:41:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 2)

The Bush administration has determined that offshore drilling will reduce our reliance on foreign oil by 1% by the year 2030. 1% in two+ decades is a joke, not a solution at all to a very serious problem.

Sky high gas prices have given congress the political capital to reform energy production. If we waste that political capital on something that doesn't solve the problem, doesn't even put a dent in it, then we're that much further away from being free from foreign oil.

Offshore drilling isn't just bad for the environment (it is), doesn't just sap tourist money from coastal communities (it does), it actually makes it harder for us to move toward energy independence, which, in turn, makes the country less safe.

I don't know why anyone would want to be in the business of harming the environment, hurting local economies, and making us less secure, but that's all offshore drilling will accomplish.

by davisb on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:18:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

by Glaurung on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 03:02:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"The Bush administration has determined that offshore drilling will reduce our reliance on foreign oil by 1% by the year 2030."

And the Transportation Dept has determined that keeping tires properly inflated will save 3.3% now.

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

Well done, perfect example of the struggle to come. Oil company ~~robots~~ supporters insisting on spending incredible amounts of money pouring more carbon into the atmosphere, sane people pushing for carbon neutral generation.

There really is no argument anymore. It is more than shortsighted to put any money into more carbon generation, as it is possible to switch over quickly leaving the oil companies on the dustbin of history. I am a huge supporter of massive windfall profits taxes on the oil companies, to the tune of 80-90% of their profit for the last four years and on into the future. That money can all be used to fund the production of electricity. A single one million dollar wind generator can supply 500 homes easily. Costs are falling precipitously, and efficiency is climbing incredibly fast. For example a simple cheap design recently announced form MIT, increased the efficiency of turning water into hydrogen and oxygen by 10 times, ie it uses 1/10th the power to create hydrogen fuel. Lets dissipate power. Centralized power is evil in politics, as Bush proves most recently, and centralized power generation, all in the hands of one set of providers, is also corrupting, as gas prices most recently prove.

Oil? Leave it in the ground, leave it in the ground.

by Exiled on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:20:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

by RickWn on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:24:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Lori,
OPEC has manipulated oil prices since the early seventies, by increasing or drawing down on their productive supply to meet or exceed demand.

No amount of off-shore drilling in America keeps OPEC from simply dialing back their own production barrel for barrel and keeping oil prices just as high then, as they are now.

Any increase in our supply over the next twenty years will be more than absorbed by our country's own increasing demand and that of the explosive growth and demand for oil in the rest of the developing world.

The GOP, now led by two oilmen and backed by many others of their ilk heavily invested, is selling the American public the usual bill of goods - good for them and bad for us.

Please constantly remind yourself that when George Bush took office, gas was on average $1.57 a gallon. It is now, eight years later at the end of his term, well over $4.00 per gallon.

The fastest, most secure way to get ourselves out of this oil crises is that breakthrough in solar, hydro, wind or geothermal technology we haven't yet discovered and as a country are sadly underfunding.

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

You are right on the substance, but wrong if you actually believe this will be helpful. Oil drilling is a concession to pad the pockets of the Congressmen who need to be reelected. But these other comments here have more than enough reason why it won't work.

Besides that, oil wells in Florida will be demolished come hurricane season. While it would be nice to turn the entire state of Florida blue for 30 years after an oil spill hits directly on St. Petersburg, I don't think it's worth it.

by vcalzone on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:37:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Layer by layer... (none / 0)

...the PUMA skin is shed to reveal the McTroll beneath.

by Glaurung on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:39:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Layer by layer... (2.00 / 1)

Lori's no PUMA... she's a good democrat... just one highly influenced by the DLC mantra of letting republicans define the debate...

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:43:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What you just defined is a LOUSEY Democrat. (none / 0)

by Glaurung on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:07:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What you just defined is a LOUSEY Democrat. (none / 0)

She's loyal... so, she gets a lot of kudos (and an uprate) from me...

I also want to understand the DLC mindset... I don't understand why people think that capitulating to your opponent is somehow victory?

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:14:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What you just defined is a LOUSEY Democrat. (none / 0)

Go ahead and explore the soul -- or dementia -- of the Republicrat if you choose. All that concerns me is that fact that when you strip away the mask, you wind up with a garden variety McTroll.

They're clever enough to realize that they can't come to this site and praise McBush and the GOP directly without getting banned. But they know it's OK to regurgutate GOP smears. lies, and talking points under the guise of being a concerned Democrat.

by Glaurung on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:55:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What you just defined is a LOUSEY Democrat. (none / 0)

You haven't been around here long... she's a Hillary supporter form TN, who is now supporting Obama... she's been here for a long time. She's no McTroll or a PUMA. Unfortunately, like many Hillary supporters, she is strongly influenced by DLC philosophy... There are many others like her... They vote democratic, so we should listen to them, but I still do not understand why they are so enamored with Republican policies. I'm sure she feels the same way about us.

But, we need each other to win this thing, so maybe we can find a way to work together, K?

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 09:36:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You haven't been around here long... (none / 0)

I've been around since 2004. I know all of these characters and their MOs.

A McTroll is as a McTroll does, and all the protestations of concern don't change the end result of attacking Democrats and helping the GOP.

by Glaurung on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:17:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

Oh, Lori. You're so misunderstood. Mojo'd.

by vcalzone on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:38:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Shes wrong on facts and theory and plans, but (none / 0)

... I didn't mod Lori down. Pointing out the errors is more important.

by Exiled on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:23:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12178967 6620512075.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

The 2008 version of purple band aids:

Tire gauges!

If this crap works again, there is no hope for this country... I thought that 2004 campaigning wasn't going to work this year... it seems to be working at the moment... I just want to friggin' cry!

I'm tired of this "try and humiliate us" crap... I hope Obama calls him out on it... maybe hand them out on his own.... carry them around and make fun of McCain for the petty garbage...

We at least know what the Republican National Convention is going to be like... There is no excuse for the Obama campaign to be not ready for it...

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:22:55 AM EST

No way. No how. No McCain!

Why did I miss on MyDD today?

by spacemanspiff on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 01:41:30 AM EST

A lot of drama, GBCW diaries, troll squashing and (2.00 / 1)

reincarnation.

by louisprandtl on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:04:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

it seems to be working at the moment... (none / 0)

It seems that way because the punditry is in a feedback loop on it. Just like, "the surge is working," was so mindlessly repeated in the face of contrary evidence that even some people who knew better found themselves repeating it too.

Break the loop. Don't repeat the lies, even with the best of intentions.

by Glaurung on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:05:13 AM EST

My theory on Bayh, Kaine, and Biden (none / 0)

If Obama doesn't announce at that one of three is his veep by the end of the week, then I suspect none of them is the pick. He has already sent the media on a wild goose chase around these three guys and before the Olympics is the best time to bust out one of the three to allow that person to get the focus of the media while Obama is on vacation.

Obama already has their paperwork and has had the media talk about the three extensively. If it doesn't come this week, then something is holding Obama back regarding Biden, Bayh, and Kaine. Just another unsubstantiated theory....

by Blazers Edge on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:10:32 AM EST

Re: My theory on Bayh, Kaine, and Biden (none / 0)

I was thinking just the opposite, but I've taken unsubstantiated speculation to some breathtaking heights before, so don't put too much stock in this opinion.

Both Obama and McCain want their veep choice all over the news cycles every minute of everyday when they make their announcements.

Neither one will even go near announcing until the Olympics are over so as not to risk being overshadowed by an amazing video-taped sports accomplishment that gets replayed and talked about 24/7 or some international political embarrassment for China that would also get all the airplay.

I'm thinking we won't hear from either camp until the Olympics are settled and finished.

by RickWn on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:52:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

by Rob McC again on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:40:36 AM EST

Y'all should be watching Anne Korin on CSPAN right now - just marvelous!

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

I really do think we need a system to moderate users. If someone gets consistently rated with 0s and 1s by multiple users, they need to be gone. Assuming the commenting system is designed for the users, this seems common sense. Otherwise, the ratings serve no purpose other than as an insult.

by vcalzone on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 02:44:29 AM EST

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

Sure, because we want this place to be like dKos- run by the stupidest clique.

by killjoy on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 03:56:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

Thank you for your troll.

by Exiled on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:25:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

Did I say that?? No, there are a lot of people who just state their opinion and get modded down, and they usually get modded back up. But there are some people who do nothing but stir up crap, and they make everyone else LEAVE.

Do YOU want an atmosphere where the most intelligent posters all leave because they don't like debating with trolls?

by vcalzone on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 09:02:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

New development in the COLB controversy (1.33 / 3)

Don't shoot the messenger, but the folks from the PUMA camp are now claiming that Obama's birth ceetificate, as published by KOS, is a forgery based on the real COLB of his half-sister, Maya Soetoro. In their typical fashion, they have come out with the claim before they are providing hard evidence in the form of images (quite dumb, imho). On the pictures the "techdude" guy posted so far, you need a lot of imagination to come to his conclusions. But I have to say, the narrative they constructed around Obama's adoption by Mr. Soetoro has reached a certain level of persuasiveness now. It's a strange story, sure, but not stranger as Watergate or Iran-Contra.

However, this controversy has continued for long enough now. Where tf is there a problem for Obama with showing his real birth certificate to the public, and stopping those rumours that are hurting his campaign???

by Gray on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 05:54:38 AM EST

Re: New development in the COLB controversy (none / 0)

While incredibly entertaining (and I'm not kidding.. I really get a kick out of reading some of the conspiracy theories that these folks come up with) the claims are ridiculous. Here's a fairly thorough rebuke of Techdude's "findings": http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.p hp?/archives/210-Bad-Science-How-Not-To- Do-Image-Analysis.html

On top of that, all information I've seen about his half sister points to her being born in Jakarta, Indonesia which would mean that she doesn't have a Hawaiian birth certificate to modify to begin with.

That being said, I'd be perfectly happy if that fringe kept spinning their wheels like this until Nov. 5th. It keeps them out of trouble, while at the same time they are actively marginalizing themselves. My only fear is when the stream of nonexistent Larry Sinclair videos, Whitey videos, and debunked Birth Certificate claims run dry they might actually put their hatred to more effective uses.

And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.

by thatpurplestuff on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 06:54:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New development in the COLB controversy (1.00 / 1)

"That being said, I'd be perfectly happy if that fringe kept spinning their wheels like this until Nov. 5th."
That may the reason why the Obama campaign doesn't show the certificate to the public. Just a campaign strategy to keep the oppsoition occupied. However, imho this may become a boomerang if the media picks this up at any point. Then it won't look good to the public that the campaign allowed this to drag on for so long. Just like it wasn't well received when Kerry all but ignored the swiftboating.

by Gray on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:06:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New development in the COLB controversy (none / 0)

They have shown the certificate to the public. Simply because some random guy online claims to see something that isn't there doesn't change that fact (he also claims that dark sinister characters have been threatening him and leaving dead animals on his porch.. haha). The onus is on this "Techdude" to prove that it's a fake. Until then, he and the rest of the people pushing this story look like crazy dingbats. Win/win in my book.

And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.

by thatpurplestuff on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:11:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New development in the COLB controversy (none / 0)

"They have shown the certificate to the public."
To some hand-picked journalists, I seem to remember. And so far, nobody testified that they saw the same document that was published as a digital copy by Kos. Not even the Hawaiian authorities can testify this, because of privacy concerns. Well, if the Obama camapign wants to keep the rumours alive, they are doing great.

"The onus is on this "Techdude" to prove that it's a fake."
Actually, if you want to create a forged digital "copy" of a document, and you don't have any restraints regarding costs and efforts, it will be almost impossible to prove that your masterwork is a fake. Needless to say, such a digital document wouldn't be allowed as evidence by any judge. If someone has to prove he has a genuine document, showing a digital image with a questionable chain of custody would be laughed out of court. So, it's not techdude who has to prove the forgery, it's good enough if he can show the probability of the image having been digitally altered. However, so far he hasn't come up with anything that is even remotely convincing. But that doesn't make the information policy of the Obama camp any more inspiring confidence.

by Gray on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:36:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New development in the COLB controversy (none / 0)

Absolutely no one that is taken seriously is taking this seriously. This is an incredibly entertaining non-story being pushed by a group of folks that are so blinded in their hatred of Obama that they are willing to believe even the most ridiculous claims.

And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.

by thatpurplestuff on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:44:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New development in the COLB controversy (none / 0)

"Absolutely no one that is taken seriously is taking this seriously"

This isn't inspiring confidence, either. Wouldn't be the first time where lunatics really found a grain of truth. And common knowledge can be awfully wrong, just remember what happend to the "facts" on the WMDs.

What I fear is that the Obama camp may really have a corpse in the closet somewhere, and that the campaign will deconstruct in the hot phase of the election, just like 2004.
:-/

by Gray on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:50:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

24 hours later, and still waiting (none / 0)

for the evidence. Grr. Yup, tps, I guess now no reasonable people will believe in the credibility of NoQuarter, and especially the techdud, anymore. It's just another scam, like the infamous "whitey" tape claim. They bid high, and when the time comes to show their hand, they haven't even a pair of "9"s. That's ridiculous. NoQuarter used to be a good site, centering on foreign security issues and often providing inside from the CIA point of view. Not any longer. What happened to Larry Johnson, is he on drugs???

by Gray on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 03:54:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey, fbihop, rating "hide"? (1.00 / 1)

That's why I wrote "don't shoot the messenger!".
You may not like this topic mentioned here, but I just reported it, without claining there's any truth to it, ok? Rating this "0" is imho a blatant misuse of the rating feature.

by Gray on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 06:55:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't want to do much complaining, but... (none / 0)

seriously, "Exiled", what's your problem? You just trollrated two totally harmelss comments. You crazy or what???

by Gray on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:53:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New development in the COLB controversy (none / 0)

Uprated because this topic cracks me up.

And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.

by thatpurplestuff on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:00:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New development in the COLB controversy (1.00 / 1)

Thx, I appreciate this.

by Gray on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:14:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New development in the COLB controversy (none / 0)

I uprated because I think we need to know about this nonsense. I don't understand how anyone thinks that this merits hiding.

by GreenHills on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 10:54:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New development in the COLB controversy (none / 0)

Obama, for better or worse, isn't the type to engage in a bunch of nonsense and stupid "controversies" unless he has to. Him engaging these people was divulging the stupid thing in the first place. Now he's done with them, and why not? If he showed them his birth certificate, would it make them any more likely to vote for him or give him their support? No. It's ONE WAY they are trying to discredit him. They'd just find another.

That said, the other day, someone posted a link to another blog where they pointed out that TexasDarlin posted a copy of a birth announcement in the local paper. And then insightfully commented about how insane it was to think about a huge conspiracy on the part of the family, everyone remembering exactly the same story and staying consistent with it forever so that their infant son could become president forty years later.

So when you think of this story, remember that one. Conspiracies are always disappointingly dull when you get to the bottom of them.

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.

by vcalzone on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 09:10:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain: at SD Biker Convention (none / 0)

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition /asection/la-na-mccain5-2008aug05,0,5460 366.story

August 5 2008

EXCERPT

Suffice it to say that few political rallies can match John McCain's brief appearance on an outdoor stage Monday night before several thousand bikers at the 68th annual Sturgis Rally, America's largest biker convention and arguably its most colorful national gathering.

Rather than applause, McCain was greeted again and again by the full-throated roar of scores of gleaming Harley-Davidsons of every shape and color. The stench of burning gasoline and rowdy shouts filled the prairie night air.

It was almost as if McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, was a celebrity -- a dirty word in his lexicon since his campaign last week ran ads mocking rival Barack Obama for his celebrity status, comparing him to Britney Spears.

Taking the stage at Buffalo Chip, the main festival site, McCain again ridiculed the presumptive Democratic nominee for drawing "hundreds of thousands" of people to an outdoor speech in Berlin.

Exaggerating his own reception by a considerable factor, McCain boasted, "I'll take the roar of 50,000 Harleys any day."

As dozens of engines revved again, he grinned. "I recognize that sound. It's the sound of freedom."

The Arizona senator introduced his wife, Cindy, who wore the equivalent of a nun's habit here: black jeans and a long-sleeved shirt. She praised her husband as "the only man who can keep us free."

McCain joked that he had encouraged his wife to enter the annual Sturgis beauty contest, one in which nudity is not uncommon. The engines roared again.

"I told her with a little luck she could be the only lady to serve as first lady and Miss Buffalo Chip," he said with a broad grin.

by dearreader on Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 07:11:30 AM EST

"McCain joked that he had encouraged his wife to enter the annual Sturgis beauty contest, one in which nudity is not uncommon."

Not very surprising, coming from the guy who publicly called his wife "cunt". But where is the outrage in the corporate media about this obvious sexism? Whenever McVain steps into shit, those journalists act if as if they were just looking into the other direction. If there was really an independent media, reporting honestly, the old fart would be at 30% in the polls. Grrr.