Operation False Flag (please rec!)

Recently I was talking to a friend about the Dem primaries.  I expressed my concern about the apparent animosity between Obama and Clinton supporters in the blogosphere and my suspicion that some of the worst offenders might actually be Republicans in disguise.  He got sort of quiet as I mentioned this, seemed like he wanted to say something and then steered the conversation in another direction.  My friend used to be a Republican, but the Bush years shoved him to independent status.  I assumed he found my suspicion a little bit insulting, and I thought no more about it until a couple of days later when I got an interesting email.  Details over the flip.

It turns out he is still on the email forward list of one of his conservative friends.  He evidently received the following email a while ago.  He was not specific about when he got it, and he stripped out the header to protect the identity of his friend (so no info there).  He also was adamant that I not share his identity as he doesn't want to become a target for leaking this.  I can make no claims to the authenticity of this message, whether or not what it describes was ever implemented, and if so on what scale.  I am passing it along just because I though we should be aware of the possibility.  At the very least it should make us think twice the next time an Obama or Clinton supporter says something really divisive.

Since I don't have the original headers or subject line, I am calling this message 'Operation False Flag'.  Read on, and if you think this is as worrisome as I do, please rec this so others can see it.  Thanks.

> IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT
> This informatin is not to be posted to any of our usual forums
> and should be emailed only to people you know personally and
> completely trust.
>
> Here is the updated game plan.
>
> > Step one: Register a bunch of user accounts on lefty blogs.  
> > Create false identities equally divided between Obama and Clinton
> > supporters.  Initially play it cool.  Don't make more than two
> > accounts per blog one for each candidate.  Too many accounts
> > from the same ip and you will be outed as a sock puppet.  Dont
> > do anything drastic that would get you banned.  Lurk for a while
> > at first so you can learn how they talk.  Liberals are like a
> > different species.
> >
> > Step two: Begin ratcheting up the retorict gradually.  Dont
> > start an all out flame war right away begin with small insults.  
> > The idea is to poison the tone of discussion but do it so slowly
> > that they dont realize where its coming from.  You want the
> > liberal sheep to get caught up in it and start doing our work for
> > us.  We can just sit in the background and give them the
> > occasional shove in the right direction.
> >
> > Step three: As the Democ-rat nomination narrows in on a
> > candidate crank up the heat.   Your ident that supports the
> > winning candidate should be a total ass to the losers.  The loser
> > ident should start calling for a voter boycott on the winner.  
> > You may not be able to peal of voters to our side but
> > demotivating them so they stay home is almost as good.  Remember
> > volume of posts is important.  A lot of small posts that
> > reinforce the divisive tone is more effective than a few big
> > posts posts that try and make the argument.
> >
> > Step four: As we succeed in peeling away some of the
> > disillusioned democ-rats we need to be ready to accept these
> > people into the fold.  Remember they have been
> > deluded by years of liberal doublethink, so we need to be careful
> > with them as they make first contact.  Perhaps we could set up
> > some new sites for this purpose ones dedicated specifically to
> > crossover voters.
> >
> > Some forums to focus on include:
> > dailykos.com
> > mydd.com
> > taylormarsh.com
> > firedoglake.com
> > These should have links to others.  Try to focus one blogs that
> > get high traffic.  They should get several articles a day and
> > hundreds of posts in the discussion threads otherwise it
> > probably is not worth your time.
> >
> > Remember the rules!  Do not post any of this on the web
> > anywhere.  You can email this to others you know and trust but
> > only if they understand the rules.  We are running this as a
> > decentrlaized cell operation so no need to report back though you
> > are encouraged to email your account id info to FF's private
> > mailbox.  He is monitoring the lefty blogs and will track our
> > progress.
> >


Poll
Do you think Republicans are pretending to be Democrats on this blog?
Yes
No
I don't know
Dude, I am one

Votes: 40
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Re: Operation False Flag (please rec!) (2.00 / 2)

I don't think we have much to fear from people who can't spell rhetoric correctly.  

Of course there are Republicans concern trolls on MyDD (and every other Democratic blog for that matter).  They are easy to spot since they can't argue their way out of a paper bag.  They just parrot dittohead talking points.  This has been going on since I started blogging and it isn't an emergency.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Sun May 18, 2008 at 08:50:38 AM EST

Re: Operation False Flag (please rec!) (2.00 / 1)

I'm not worried about the occasional random troll, but this plot seems more organized and insidious than that.  It really makes me wonder about some of the more vocal haters on either side of the Dem divide.  Even if not true, it should make us think about the consequences of our continuing division.  We are handing the neocons exactly what they want.


by protothad on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:32:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Even if this particular letter isn't true (2.00 / 2)

...it is a very plausable explanation for the trolls we see around here.

Rec'd for hopefully talking down our more authentic brothers and sisters from any ledges they might be on.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Sun May 18, 2008 at 09:43:37 AM EST

The real question is: (none / 0)

Who is "FF?"


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Sun May 18, 2008 at 09:44:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The real question is: (2.00 / 1)

Probably False Flag.

Could also be Fat Fanny, Frozen Frankfurter, or Flatulent Fuhrer.


Let the children lose it Let the children use it Let all the children boogie
by toyomama on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:06:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The real question is: (2.00 / 1)

Could be, though I also suspect it might be a 'pub with the handle FreedomsFire that I remember from another email my friend forwarded to me.  I can't find that older message, otherwise I might dig up more detail about this.


by protothad on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:28:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Troll Identification (none / 0)

One of the problems for honest Clinton supporters is that the comments a real Republican Troll would leave do not have to be far different than what Senator Clinton herself called for in the Friday conference call to her bloggers.

The only clear differentiation is that Senator Clinton is calling for all of her supporters to support the Democrat nominee.  You cannot expect that to come from a Rep. Troll.  

On the other hand, it is my belief that many Clinton Bloggers who are pledging support to John McCain are not Rep. Trolls either, but actually mean what they say.  So there is imho no real way to clearly ID a Republican Troll in these cases.

As an Obama supporter, on the other (third?) hand, I have no great hesitation to call out a supposed Obama supporter behaving similarly as a Rep. Troll.  There has never been a call from the candidate or the campaign encouraging the types of intentional devisive tactics as Sen. Clinton calls for.  Quite the opposite.  

Any Obama "supporter" using such language is more likely - again imho - to be an opposition Troll than a real supporter.

-chris


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:39:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Operation False Flag (please rec!) (2.00 / 2)

I think we HAVE been identifying them pretty easily. We all know that some supporters seem to have no interest in getting a Democrat elected.

Assuming that this plan was written by one of them that was better than the typical soldier, that "Democ-rat" bit demonstrates the extent of their abilities.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:39:23 AM EST

Something I noticed. (2.00 / 2)

I stayed away from MyDD for several months during this primary season in a fit of pique because my email address changed and I couldn't seem to get a login that would work.

I finally straightened it out and came back.  My first comment in an open thread was 'What has happened here?  The place is crawling with trolls.'  Now that I've been around again for a couple of months, I gotten used to it but it was a shocker.

My point, if I have one, is that your friend's plan works.  I've become slightly de-sensitized to trollish behavior.  There are only a few Clinton supporters on this site that appear to be genuine.  The rest appear to be trolls but since I can't be sure, I have to treat them as if they are not.  On other liberal blogs, people are not so kind.  Posters who have been long ago outed as trolls on TPM and Kos have been posting with impunity here until recently, even getting admin support to remove TU status from people calling them out.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:34:30 AM EST

A Business (none / 0)

FYI; Blogs make money through advertisement. High traffic is a key to more profit. I think that's great. Who am I, who are you? Who knows? Anyone can blog. I do know this much, the more traffic the better for an internet business. Hooray to making money! :D


by soyousay on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:47:52 AM EST

Rec'd. (none / 0)

Rec'd for "retorict."


John McCain: He flunked ECON 101.
by Shem on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:57:04 AM EST

the divide is troubling (none / 0)

I don't think Obama supporters understand how it could be offensive to call us 'low information voters' for example.  I think they accept it as fact or maybe think all of the Hillary supporters on this site are only voting for her because we're women.  

Obama supporters need to re-think certain 'truisms' that have become accepted as 'fact' by some of them.  That you can be a Hillary supporter and not be a racist, for example.  That some of us are just as inspired by Hillary as they are by Obama.  

I'll admit I have been there too - talking about the 'cult', etc.  But I have really tried to stay away from that recently.  For those Obama supporters who do go to the anti-Hillary side, it is just as effective for me, anyway, to hear an Obama supporter tell them that they are wrong.  


by searchforsolidarity on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:14:04 PM EST

Re: the divide is troubling (none / 0)

You make a fair point.  I mean that.

Some of your compatriots say the same sorts of things about African Americans, though.

There's blood on all of our hands.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:27:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the divide is troubling (none / 0)

I haven't seen anybody say anything offensive about African Americans here.  If I saw it, thogh, I would certainly be the first to denounce it.  


by searchforsolidarity on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:30:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the divide is troubling (none / 0)

I dont think AA women will be helped much by an Obama presidency, because he doesnt really understand the problems of women. Remember he was born in a fairly wealthy,intelletual white family.
  The men he has made friends with are rich. I dont see that many women who have made a difference in his life except his grandmother and mother. But they didnt move him toward politics and what he is doing in his life like the black men in his life have.  JMO
MelK Austin,TX                                                                                                                                  
by mk5112 TX on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:51:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the divide is troubling (none / 0)

I think when you are faced with two great candidates, it is understandable to lean toward the one that you have some sort of cultural tie to.  It would only be disturbing if people were clearly picking an unqualified candidate strictly for reasons of racial/gender identity.  I honestly don't think you can argue that is happening in this case.


by protothad on Sun May 18, 2008 at 03:12:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the divide is troubling (none / 0)

Well we wont vote for Obama and we dont really want to vote for McCain. So if Clinton decided to become an Independent and we could vote for her and her VP in the national campaign in Nov- we would see what happens and just live with it.
   Its like throwing the dice if that happens- it goes to who ever has more support.
   Having her on the ticket as a Independent would upset both of the little men and this would come about because of the way Hillary and her supporters have been treated by the Obama and McCain camps. So if that happens , you trolls can thank yourselfs for this.
MelK Austin, tx
by mk5112 TX on Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:44:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Operation False Flag (none / 0)

Why would I recommend this diary?

This is the most laughable plot I've ever seen--with the possible exception of the Miami cadre of suspected terrorists who were going to blow up the Sears Tower being led down the garden path by an over-zealous FBI informant who should have been arrested himself.

And, yeah, I can't see being worried about a numbnut ringleader who can't even spell rhetoric.

Only someone who doesn't have the capacity for critical thought would give this email or this "operation" any credence. C'mon. It's ridiculous! Get over your fear of "trolls" will ya? It's like kids afraid of monsters under their beds, seeing monsters in every shadow.

Good grief...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Harry S Truman
by Tennessean on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:39:20 PM EST

Re: Operation False Flag (none / 0)

I've looked through dozens of your comments, and I've yet to find any post of yours that says anything good about any Democrat - you're anti-Obama, but you don't seem to be particularly pro-Hillary enough to actually defend her on anything -- only to repeatedly state that you won't vote unless it's her who gets the nomination.

Indeed your most passionate defense so far, seems to have been of any Democrat but of Pat Buchanan instead: http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/5/15/2 35310/161/136#136


by Aris Katsaris on Sun May 18, 2008 at 01:17:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Operation False Flag (please rec!) (2.00 / 1)

Trolls are trolls and I'm not sure someone lacking the natural troll urge could be an effective troll solely motivated by a political endgame. I've speculated about whether certain posters are "false flag" posters but the bottom line is either the person is making a valid point or they are not. I don't think alegre is a troll or a paid operative, but her personal motivation for making a ridiculous argument doesn't change the ridiculous nature of the argument.  


by Mobar on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:45:06 PM EST

Recommended because I find this interesting, (2.00 / 1)

whether it's working or not. I've become increasingly suspicious and intolerant lately. Maybe I'm just more impatient. I've begun to mentally label more and more people as trolls, when in fact they're probably just angry Democrats (and in many cases, Clinton supporters who are hurting). I'm especially suspicious when people say things like, "You liberals are blah blah blah" or "The far-Left is hijacking the party and someone needs to put you in your place." That strikes me as RW-trollish behavior, but I try to keep in mind that most Clinton supporters aren't like me -- a lot of them are centrists and moderates, so maybe they really do resent liberals and progressives.

The people who are bashing affirmative action, talking about the evil Left-wing of the party, or calling CNN the "Clinton News Network" (which I actually saw someone do awhile back) are probably trolls. Beyond that, I can't always be sure.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun May 18, 2008 at 12:53:00 PM EST

What is this 'far left' that I keep hearing about? (none / 0)

What is so radical about Obama's platform?  Is it the energy policy that emphasizes local/renewable production?  Is it a return to pay-as-you-go fiscal discipline that balances the budget?  Is it the attempt (however flawed) to provide health care to more Americans?  Is it his plan (favored by most Americans) for a phased withdrawal from Iraq?  Is it the attempt to increase grass roots participation in our Democracy, is that a radical far left principle?

What exactly is this 'far left' and why exactly should I be afraid of it.  Please explain.

Thanks.


by protothad on Sun May 18, 2008 at 03:23:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's just it, Obama's a centrist policy-wise. (2.00 / 1)

The people calling him an ultra-liberal/far-Left candidate are idiots. My guess is, most of them are Republican trolls who've been watching Faux News. They're getting their talking points from O'Reilly.

Besides, there's nothing wrong with the "far Left".


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun May 18, 2008 at 03:48:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Operation False Flag (please rec!) (none / 0)

One of the surest ways I've found to identify them is to reward their appeals to traditional Democratic values. For instance, if they turn apoplectic when you talk about how noble their support of things like universal health care, reproductive freedom, and gay rights then chances are you've got a GOP troll on your hands.

These trolls often pretend to be single issue supporters, but refuse to support the other candidate's nearly identical stance on those issues. They get especially offended when you suggest that the issues they claim to support are more important than personality or campaigning style.


by Thadd Selden on Mon May 19, 2008 at 08:09:55 PM EST


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